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heres another strawman, incorporating our latest discussions: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/projects/THREDDS/xml/InvCatalog.0.6d.dtd Recent changes: 1) Collections as datasets. Ethan and I think the cleanest way to allow "collections as datasets" is to allow nested datasets. Collections remain just groups of datasets. A Collection as a dataset is done as a dataset with nested datasets. Nested dataset elements (Joe's meaning #2) should imply (in some way we need to clarify better) nested datasets (Joe's meaning #1 and #3). 2) allow compound services again. I have talked myself into that these will be often useful. 3) services are now contained within any collection, rather than having to be all in the top catalog element. They are scoped by the collection they are in (so we no longer use ID, since those are global). This makes a catalogRef have (almost) the same semantics as a collection. 4) a catalog now only has exactly one collection element. (i considered eliminating catalog but i think its better this way). 5) "attribute" changed to "property" (tired of saying "the attribute attribute") 6) access element can specify an absolute URL with a serverType -or- a reletive URL with a serverID. Unless I get a barrage of objections, I will document this in more detail ASAP. I will be gone for a week starting next Tuesdy, so Ethan will continue the conversation as needed. Hopefully, we can converge soon and take a break! I think I have incorporated all the good ideas i have heard in this discussion. Have I left out something, or do you think any feature is not worth the complexity?